After 36 years in uniform, Air Corps Common Emmanuel de Romémont left energetic service in 2015. Throughout a wealthy profession, he was successively a reconnaissance and fighter pilot, commanders of two squadrons, an air base, undertaking supervisor then deputy normal on the Delegation for Strategic Affairs, rapporteur to the committee in command of the White E-book on protection and Nationwide Safety in 2008, and at last in command of planning and getting ready operations French joint forces (Serval specifically). Conscious of the significance of local weather change, and specifically the problem of entry to water, he launched the Extra Water Initiative for the Sahel two years in the past. It’s with a singular strategy, inherited from his operational expertise that he addresses these points with us, on this 14th and final episode of the sequence.
On this sequence of main interviews, we’ve chosen to ask the identical inquiries to personalities from the world of ecology, every with a distinct strategy, career, and career. Such a undertaking is unprecedented and its goal is to point out how each enhances to sketch the broad outlines of the pressing ecological transition. Everybody owns a part of the answer, a part of the arms of the transition. Transdisciplinarity should develop into a working customary, not an exception.
Collection Weapons of Transition additionally exists in video format:
LVSL – You’re a four-star normal within the Air Pressure and also you additionally lead the Extra Water for the Sahel initiative. What can a normal within the context of local weather change?
Emmanuel de Romémont – One of many responses to local weather change, no matter its origins, is the query of water. It’s on this sense that my presence is related right here to speak about it and to speak about one other query, that of my expertise. What we are able to say is that a normal is somebody who has a imaginative and prescient of the world, who has been confronted with what’s and what’s not and who additionally has a imaginative and prescient of the impression that may have males once they wish to change the world: both in direction of extra good, or in direction of extra evil. He’s a lucid citizen on the evolution of the world, on the disturbing components that we see at work. I feel I perceive fairly properly the dynamics of human techniques that characterize the muse of our planet and these are the techniques that may evolve, that we should evolve to go in direction of extra peace and it has been my work for a number of years .
He’s additionally a person of motion who acts as a person of thought to make use of Bergson's well-known phrase, if we perceive the dynamics of those techniques at work, we are able to discover methods to enhance and transfer in direction of extra peace. We all know the value of warfare, we should do every part to keep away from it. Within the few years that I spent in uniform (36!), There’s a sentence that has at all times marked me that always used Common Georgelin: " dwelling on the floor will punish you for ignoring the longer term that at all times inherits. ". We at all times inherit conditions, crises, acts that we’ve accomplished or not accomplished and subsequently for our kids from whom we borrow the planet, to make use of Saint-Exupéry's expression, to supply them one thing extra lovely, affluent, secure and developed, you need to transfer and suppose.
My major topic is to consider how we conduct collective actions, how we do collective work. That is the entire problem of local weather change and all of the long-term penalties: shifting in direction of actual implementation and actual progress. To be concrete, what me quite a bit was water. Having been to Africa, I used to be struck by the truth that it was water and training that have been on the root of many crises. Water is life. We observe that the shortage of water results in migration, instability, insecurity. Guaranteeing entry to water is a harmonious relationship with the setting: when it exists, there’s peace, when it doesn’t exist, there’s insecurity, there’s a direct hyperlink. What we’ve noticed in Africa, particularly within the areas that curiosity me, is that the soldier I’m, the operations supervisor who was pressured to handle techniques, perceives that we are able to attempt to change some parameters of this water system and make issues occur.
It's actually my cry since this initiative that I launched in March 2018 in a very humble method, to see that the statement that I had posed initially was comforted by some and to open doorways little by little, attempt to add an added worth, however by shaking off a little bit of obtained concepts and by going out of sure logics, by making system thinker. You requested me what a normal like me can convey: an operational, somebody who thought the system can convey a capability to make the hyperlink, to suppose inter ligere, to make intelligence of what connects. Nobody is correct on their own and won’t reply alone, it’s collectively that we’ll convey it, so we should suppose "system dynamics" within the brief, medium and long run, that is the important thing. Water is usually an issue that’s handled as a result of there’s an emergency and the options to the emergency require that we replicate on the medium and long run options.
He’s somebody who’s used to shifting from considering to performing, translating intentions into actuality and stopping issues from getting worse and on this case, we’re there within the will to interrupt a cycle which tends to deteriorate relatively since there’s a lack of data. Ranging from the precept that there’s hope, that we are able to enhance and that we are able to get out of this paradox which implies that right this moment there are individuals who have lower than six liters of water per day, – not drinkable – whereas underneath their toes there’s underground water. It additionally appears to me that Africa's problem is to maneuver to a extra marked use of groundwater and it’s this example that we’ve tackled. So there are answers which suppose that they’re sufficiently exploited, that we all know higher the aquifers, the recharge dynamics and that supposes that we put again the science, that we substitute within the system, that we combine completely different occasions. It's a really advanced system with individuals who act on completely different time frames, and to make individuals perceive that right this moment, serious about it by mixing specialties may get us to one thing, that's what I’ve created.
If we seek advice from Lyautey, the hyperlink between safety and improvement is established, evident in rural areas and other people mustn’t, on the grounds that there isn’t a safety, abandon individuals. As well as, it should be remembered that the Roman peace, the "Pax Romana" was made by an enter from the aqueducts, so it isn’t the position of the armies that’s immediately concerned. The position of the armies in supporting, making accessible, and so on., requires coordination on the bottom between the individuals in command of safety and people in command of improvement. That is actually the main problem, a multidisciplinary problem in essence. That is the place I come again to my central concept, what a normal can convey is to return to the idea of strategos or from age stratos within the time of the Greeks. Within the root of strategos, agos that’s to extend, that’s the concept – for the armies, you may say that " hydragos "- to extend a capability to coordinate all actions and that’s the issue right this moment, we reside in a compartmentalized world the place everybody has part of data. Nonetheless, we may also help to construction a convergence of information, however meaning questioning ourselves, which is what we try to do. A soldier on a discipline in operation is a chemist, somebody who modifications the information of a system, he’s requested to convey peace, safety and subsequently we should change the components and that's what it takes do right this moment to enhance and get out of the body. It’s on this sense that I make the hyperlink with the local weather in order that we are able to take optimistic motion, making use of what I name operational intelligence.
LVSL – Might you describe your typical day, what does your exercise encompass concretely and what’s your working technique?
E. R. – There isn’t any typical day as a result of it’s troublesome: I advance on difficult terrain, new, I don’t take the place of anybody, I attempt to add. If we come, it’s as a result of there’s one thing helpful and if we’ve to coordinate, individuals nonetheless must conform to let themselves be coordinated. And so, there have been phases: the lobbying part and the politico-strategic part with our participation within the Peace Discussion board and the Dakar Discussion board the place we have been capable of communicate, it isn’t sufficient, but it surely helps mobilize stakeholders. The primary issue comes from the actual fact of mobilizing the actors who’re utterly completely different, who even require capitalist logics, of enterprise that are completely different. Learn how to combine that, that is my major job: making certain the community, on the lookout for after which carrying the pleas in several boards, additionally creating belief as a result of we reside in a world the place mistrust reigns and clarify Why.
The truth is, I’m a bit of bit the spokesperson of a difficulty that’s larger, which can appear apparent after some time to individuals who don’t perceive that in the end to defend, defend, their exercise, they’ve an curiosity in hook up with one thing larger and that's what's happening. It’s also a piece of type, of presence, and since we arrange all this, we attempt to make administratively reside the affiliation and to take part, to work, on what is named a undertaking space , i.e. space tasks. That is what we try to place in place and act: give substance to the concept and construction these interactions.
My working technique is to not make a transfer to succeed, it’s to convey fact and the reality introduced by science, however we see that science is the paradox: we’re in a world the place individuals don’t take heed to those that know. There are generally humanitarian improvement companies that don’t respect this time, it’s extra vital to construct one thing stable and above all you need to pose the issue: in every zone, every nation, there are completely different issues.
So the everyday day, there’s none and right this moment, it’s primarily to conceive and attempt to persuade those that there are answers, a hope. There’s a sentence from Marshal Foch which says "to not bear": we cannot bear destiny, the world modifications, evolves and we’re confronted with a deficit of adaptation so do not stay swinging, cease on the 'aquoibonisme. There are answers and these undergo a system strategy: it begins by explaining to those that the system could be reviewed, however that it takes time, it begins to percolate, individuals see the entire system and see their optimistic position, and that additionally implies a bit of alternative ways of doing issues.
Somebody had alluded that it was not the Anthropocene that we have been dwelling, it was the Capitalocene, a capitalist period. What we do or don't do on the water, to return to what we inherit by way of historical past, is linked to the truth that we’re capitalist constructions which have dominated. On this economic system of the world system, water doesn’t have the place it deserves to have, specifically with regard to the impression of water if just for ingesting, for dwelling, for well being . The truth is, we’re at the start of one thing vital, so my days are speaking to individuals, explaining, attending events, bringing in audio system, motivating. We’re going to arrange a night with African Voices known as "Water, an answer for the Sahel", with out query marks. It's a helicopter pilot's job, we attempt to be in any respect ranges and humbly create momentum round me and discover the assets to have the ability to transfer ahead on this fascinating however very advanced topic.
LVSL – Are you continue to a normal within the Air Pressure not on responsibility, however in reserve?
E. R. – I’m in reserve of the Republic, I can be retired at 67 having been a fighter and reconnaissance pilot. I left at 55, I’m not on energetic service, I’m within the second part thus in reserve, recallable, and I can assist the companies of the Republic. I’m not formally retired, however the truth stays that I can specific myself and perform my actions for the widespread good, in any case, that’s what we try to do.
LVSL – What’s your purpose?
E.R. – My purpose is to ensure to place in place a construction that enables us to persuade that there are answers to the issues that we encounter as quickly as we agree to take a look at them: the issue of entry to water, water administration, entry to data, governance and training … My major purpose is to make it clear that if the solutions are systemic, the issue is systemic above all and it stems from the group of the responses that we are able to present and the way in which of orchestrating. It is because of this that I want to communicate on the identical time of technique, of type and of substance as a result of all those that have studied know and have data that there’s groundwater within the Sahel, that we are able to do higher by training, governance, that we’ve to alter the way in which we do issues, that every one of those main packages come up towards an extreme partitioning of the zones and that this mixture, this assurance of continuity is missing. In fact, the context is troublesome, however we are able to do that by considering issues by, specifically, by undertaking areas.
The second perception in the concept that there’s hope is that historical past goes by science. Water science could be positioned on the coronary heart of the system, however since we’re not investing and the financial world has not invested sufficient, we regularly find yourself with a world of improvement, a humanitarian world, which doesn’t take not sufficient into consideration scientific analyzes. There’s, in reality, a time lag, and it is extremely unlucky, since you repeat the identical issues, the identical causes reproduce the identical results, so we repeat the identical errors. With demographic strain, world warming, and so on., we are able to not contemplate that what has labored to this point will proceed to work, it could be to disregard the longer term which at all times inherits and subsequently we’ve an obligation to 'use prospects. At this time, even from a distance, with satellites, analyzes, the radar wave, database crossovers, and so on., there are scientific discoveries which have proven that we are able to higher perceive the dynamics of recharging. , flows, vertical transfers and that it may be modified another way. You may go it on and study it, so individuals can take it.
On the tactic, my goal is to persuade that if we wish to make collective, it’s essential to alter the modes of cooperation, that everybody finds its curiosity there. Competitors is nice, however to fabricate on the topic, it might be essential to suppose, to cross data and put individuals within the service of science in a logic of service. It is because of this that I proposed an idea a yr and a half in the past, on the Peace Discussion board, of related Peace and Water operations on a undertaking space which intention to convey collectively all of the actions and put the system underneath stress. It’s a logic of utilized science, however utilized underneath constraint for the reason that argument is that science can be long run and that within the brief time period, we might solely do emergency actions, which is fallacious.
My perception is that there are two worlds: peace and water. The world of peace is the world the place I come from, the world of safety, political-military-strategic conferences and every part in between. This world ignores the probabilities of water, doesn’t know the constraints and all of the protections required whereas the world of water may be very technical. Everybody wants to hitch and so we are able to act collectively and make it work. It is because of this that I developed an idea known as operational intelligence which consists in having one thing the place you’re certain to use on the bottom – what we do in army operations, however it’s completely not reserved for the army world. This skill to maneuver from thought to motion is what one in every of your interviewees uncovered within the well-known GAP (South Anatolia Venturest).
To do that, we are able to suppose in an operational intelligence, that’s to say, after we plan, after we design an operation, an motion, whether or not by way of training or data. We should already consider the chance it has of making use of itself on the bottom, its penalties and this reference to the populations, the native is key. That is, in reality, the paradox of water: it’s a native concern, however the solutions that we are able to present should be world. So this isn’t a globalization, however it’s a combination to orchestrate and that supposes, as soon as once more, humanity generally. If we give it some thought, past the standard obstacles as a human being, we should and we are able to show and construct a collective work, however that supposes that we problem sure pretty basic obstacles that not exist to be for me, which however exist and persist, and above all that the worlds communicate to one another and that the spheres talk. I, who am a little bit of a neuroscientist in my very own method, I’m satisfied that it’s linked to a deficit in connection between the completely different psyches of one another, however as quickly as individuals make an effort to know one another by taking cultural constraints into consideration, it may be structured there, if everybody can discover their place. It’s difficult, but it surely’s the purpose.
LVSL – Sophisticated or advanced?
E. R. – It's advanced and complex on the identical time. The issue is advanced as a result of it’s multidimensional and complex to prepare, to construction, however when confronted with a posh downside, there are strategies to unravel it resembling operational intelligence, techniques evaluation. One thing appeals to me quite a bit after we analyze, it’s the logic of trigger and impact. The actions we take have an effect over the subsequent 5 years, 10 years … There are an entire sequence of causes that we establish that may generate results, that’s what we are able to mitigate. We now have to think about all of the interactions and sit down with a complexity, however isn't it our human position to make advanced techniques readable and to seek out solutions? In any case, that was my job, to make issues readable and to seek out an motion. As males, we’re sure to simplicity: in motion, we’re easy. We should attempt to make sure that the motion we take is essentially the most directed and essentially the most related with regard to this double "advanced and complexity".
LVSL – Might you give us three certainties that you’ve solid all through your profession?
E. R. – The artwork of talking, as Jean Guitton stated, is to repeat what we simply stated, "The key of any artwork of expression is to say the identical factor 3 times: we are saying we’re going to say it, we are saying it, we are saying that we stated it. ". That there are answers and that we are able to get out of the paradox, it’s a certainty, I’m firmly satisfied of it. I returned to college, I obtained a grasp's diploma the place I used to be capable of focus on with scientists: there are answers and we are able to transcend the controversy on the origins of world warming, the query of water is central, c is my first certainty.
The second is that you need to foyer and I thank LVSL for serving to me foyer as a result of it’s completely essential to mobilize the people who find themselves starting to know it. For the previous two years, individuals have seen that there’s a lack of water in France, we’re speaking increasingly concerning the water warfare, we see articles showing, warmth wave occasions have proven that we’d like of water and that is one thing that challenges us in our each day lives. That is what we’ve simply skilled in Australia and it’s proof that there’s something, that there’s an funding, a structuring of the economic system and of politics, which is in full mismatch with the very important wants we face. So it has to develop into a precedence once more, we’ve to place water again on the political agenda.
Then, the third half, these are the ideas that we’ve developed, primarily based on a imaginative and prescient of the techniques that we’ve applied and on the concept that techniques can evolve, and to do that, I advised you concerning the operational intelligence: that is the everlasting requirement to consider terrain constraints in any respect ranges.
We now have developed this idea of Peace and Water operations and undertaking areas, taking notice that right this moment – and that is paradoxical – no name for tenders is structured in relation to this logic. We now have a rule in aviation that claims " preserve it easy in order that issues work ": For issues to work, they must be simplified, and what we’ve proposed is kind of easy, however it’s so easy that this isn’t how issues are accomplished (administratively specifically). So I’d say that the ideas, for me, is designing peace and water operations, finishing up undertaking areas and serious about operational intelligence. Every system has its difficulties and you need to foyer, attempt to work on causes that produce the identical issues. Conservatism is not applicable, there’s actually one thing to consider and we situate ourselves by these ideas with the concept of bringing individuals by themselves to seek out options another way, to place it across the desk to allow them to give it some thought. However it isn’t we who’ve the options, it could be conceited to suppose that we’ve them from Paris, so we should contemplate that it’s a utterly African initiative: it’s on the service of Africa and desires of Africa, that's the way it was designed.
LVSL – If we have been to rework these certainties into public insurance policies, what wouldn’t it give?
E. R. – Public coverage is one thing I do know properly sufficient to have participated within the white paper on defending nationwide safety. If we see water as an goal of nationwide safety and that this requires that a number of public insurance policies contribute to this want, we’d like Overseas Affairs, Protection, safety of installations to guard entry individuals and their knowledge, and so on. It entails the Ministry of Well being, the Ministry of Analysis, Increased Schooling and so on., it’s an interdepartmental problem. Earlier than I even attempt to translate it, I’ll translate it by way of safety within the sense that safety is the tip, however doesn’t essentially convey army means. To have safety, you want improvement, training, water, every part. The factors of utility is exactly to seek out undertaking areas and that is what the Nigeriens have accomplished by what they name their water advanced and on which they converge actions which are to each social, societal, and so on.
Nigeriens have developed an idea that entails each a safety dimension (i.e. the army dimension to guard), hydrogeologists, geologists, engineers, sociologists, and so on. Their imaginative and prescient is a multidisciplinary imaginative and prescient which seeks to cross disciplines and it is because of this that this problem is "public insurance policies" within the plural.
The added worth can be not solely to consider public insurance policies, however to consider the implementation of public insurance policies. That is the problem for all nations right this moment: intergovernmental, interagency, coordination between the assorted actions. To translate this state of affairs, if we have been to make a white paper on water and the parallel with what I did, water ought to be thought-about a precedence by all departments, we must put water again in Agenda. The Ministry of Protection can also be involved by the truth that the price of transporting water for troopers is greater than 50% of the price of logistics, it’s monumental, and subsequently it justifies an funding and rethink issues.
In case you calculate by way of price, you could have a value to not make investments on data that interprets into the long run. We frequently take the instance of drilling, however this has a combined price, there’s a failure price of about 75%. What we are saying in our strategy is that we should put money into data to scale back the overall price, subsequently, there’s a reflection on the economic system. For water, discover utility maneuvering mechanisms, make an advert hoc funding, query the position of armies within the sense of the Pax Romana – not a direct that means like the development of aqueducts that that they had made however within the sense of the contribution and the assist of improvement actions -, to make decisions of priorities and maybe to make a white paper and to notice that water is a matter of disaster.
What strikes me right this moment is that we don’t settle for to think about that water is a disaster concern and for me, there isn’t a disaster: there’s disaster and post-crisis . The disaster is everlasting, it should be handled as such, the troopers are used to going to the disaster discipline and staying there for five or 10 years. So, we combine this notion of period and there are solutions that may be supplied within the brief, medium and long run, hoping that the consistency of the actions that there are between the three areas will make that in the long run , issues can have progressed. We’re within the building of cathedrals, these are long-term constructions like what was accomplished for the Provence canal.
To go far, I suggest within the context of public insurance policies to create " water disaster groups ", Water disaster groups, to suppose issues out, to have a extra operational and inclusive logic bearing in mind all the scale. That is the idea of "complete pressure", which the Australians have used, the place there’s management that’s supplied by sure organizations. It’s not the army who’ve the management, they arrive to assist. There are individuals from performing, of main and Supporting within the army world, we regularly act with a logic of fans-supporting, the sustained and the supporting, and on these questions, there’s a actual reflection on who brings what, there’s a query of structuring. The ministry most involved with water points is the Ministry of Agriculture and I feel it’s as much as it to create this type of construction, to be the chief and to be supported by others .
LVSL – For France, we think about an inter-ministerial construction which might conduct such a water coverage, however in comparison with the Sahel, let's admit that NGOs and even AFD put money into drilling stations, you have been speaking concerning the position of armed to guard these stations specifically, does that presuppose an elevated French presence within the Sahel for instance, to guard the drilling stations of Boko Haram, within the context the place a G5 Sahel pressure isn’t but structured. How do you articulate the urgency of building these drilling stations with the safety emergency and the French presence?
E. R. – There are a number of questions that have to be separated. The position of the army is completely different in nations, African nations are sovereign and there are areas the place solely the army or the safety forces can go. The French army should stay in what, by mandate, they must do. That they perceive the necessity to defend, to higher consider the wants of medium and long run in planning, that the troopers, whether or not African or European who participate on this operation consider the water constraints and de facto, the query of the survival of populations and their dwelling situations appears to me to be completely official.
LVSL – Have they got the means, within the brief time period? In Mali, we’re confronted with a breakthrough of jihadist forces which forestall sure improvement tasks from being carried out. Can we inform the armies of the Sahel to take this actuality into consideration?
E. R. – Sure, we’ve the means. The issue is a matter of selection, however once more, watch out to not focus the picture of water on the borehole. If the overall concept is to do one thing that creates situations, there are areas safe and simply do the oil stain principle. Vous avez une zone que vous sécurisez, vous créez un havre de paix, ça évolue peu à peu et on en fait de plus en plus. Il n’y a pas des zones d’insécurité permanente partout, il faut commencer à rompre ce cycle et c’est exactement ce que font les Nigériens à travers le complexe d’eau, c’est-à-dire la capacité qu’ils ont à penser dans les zones rurales, à sécuriser, à mettre des endroits où on apporte aux populations une certaine garantie et une sécurité à travers un accès à l’eau vérifié. La sensibilisation des militaires et des gens qui sont chargés de protéger à ces questions là est tout à fait normale. Il faut effectivement protéger ces infrastructures, mais le fait de connaître en amont l’endroit où on va forer, ce sont des choix stratégiques.
Dans la région du lac Tchad, où il y avait une partie de Boko Haram, il y a des endroits où on peut décider de créer des zones plus stables en fonction de la connaissance de l’eau. On parle de migration des populations, du déplacement des villes comme Nouakchott à trigger de la montée des eaux, de structurer, anticiper le déplacement des populations ce qui n’avait pas été bien fait dans la crise des Grands Lacs puisque l’une des raisons de la mort de certaines personnes, c’est qu’on les avait amenées, aidées, à migrer dans des zones où il n’y avait justement pas assez d’eau. Le besoin de connaissance en eau devient une dimension stratégique et qui dit stratégie dit forcément implication du monde de la sécurité et du monde militaire.
LVSL – Quel devrait être le rôle de votre self-discipline dans la planification de la transition écologique ? À quel niveau votre self-discipline devrait intervenir par rapport à la décision publique ? Vous parliez d’intergouvernementalité, mais est-ce qu’on pourrait penser une establishment qui pourrait faciliter cette prise de décision ?
E.R. – Je pense que là on se retrouve dans la même difficulté qu’on a de penser les choses au sens strategos, de l’motion, touch upon peut mettre en place et coordonner, ce n’est pas une self-discipline en tant que telle. La query clé, c’est la multiplication des disciplines et leur orchestration qui est nécessaire, on a la même difficulté sur la stratégie, mais sur celle-ci on a la science politique au-dessus et le stratège est au service du politique.
On pourrait d’ailleurs, si on fait le parallèle avec les armées, mettre en place des hydragos ; si on considère qu’agos c’est agir, c’est organiser, et dans le mot stratégie il y a stratos, c’est la dimension armée et là, il s’agit d’organiser, de chief, de diriger quelque selected à court docket, moyen ou lengthy terme au revenue de questions d’eau. Donc, y réfléchir à la place de la self-discipline et proposer une façon de le penser, c’est ce qu’on suggest : penser système, penser intelligence opérative, penser la mise en œuvre et penser à organiser à travers ce idea d’hydragos, une hydrogouvernance, un peu plus giant que la seule gestion intégrée des ressources qui ne me semble pas couvrir tout ça. On est renvoyé à la capacité d’agir. Idéalement, il faudrait une construction qui éduquerait – autrefois, on avait les administrations d’outre-mer qui formaient les gens à gérer des projets collectifs –, et on pourrait réfléchir à quelque selected qui permettrait de former les gens.
Il faut faire du advert hoc et si on l’applique à l’Afrique, ce sont des pays souverains donc ce sont à eux de décider. La query c’est remark – et en n’ayant pas de discours colonialiste – ils ont besoin d’aide, nous pouvons apporter la science, mais tout dépend du contexte. Il y a des zones différentes, donc il faut adapter à chacun des contextes et c’est pour ça que l’idée de monter des consortiums est une des raisons principales pour lesquelles on aborde les zones-projets en lien avec l’IRD (Institut de Recherche pour le Développement). Je travaille de plus en plus aussi avec des organismes comme Up2green qui font de la reforestation parce que je suis convaincu qu’on peut appliquer des connaissances scientifiques en trois ans, cinq ans, des durées assez courtes, les mettre en œuvre, les développer, les renforcer, mieux connaître les ressources en eau pour faire les bons choix en termes d’agriculture, de reforestation, et avoir des effets positifs. Ce qui intéresse la inhabitants c’est de voir le positif. Ceci suppose encore une fois qu’il y ait une cascade – on emploie le mot dans l’intelligence opérative – de bons choix stratégiques, c’est ce qu’il faut organiser et c’est difficile. C’est pour cette raison que je pense que le multiaxe est vital. Alors, faudrait-il une construction ? Peut-être que des « water disaster groups » pourraient être une partie de la réponse.
LVSL – Si un candidat à la présidentielle vous donnait carte blanche pour l’aider à élaborer son programme, très concrètement, quelles sont les idées que vous lui soumettriez ?
E.R. – Si on réfléchit aux objectifs, il faut que ce soit un programme réaliste, qui plaise, qui soit populaire, qui marche. Pour qu’il marche, il faut garantir aux populations l’accès à l’eau, la garantie de sa qualité, qu’on puisse réhabiliter et protéger les ressources. Un livre blanc sur l’eau, ça a déjà été testé et ça pourrait être une première approche politique pour sensibiliser. Un chercheur (Patrick Flicoteaux) a développé l’idée d’avoir un wikiwater, c’est-à-dire d’avoir un partage de données et de structurer la donnée. Aujourd’hui, et c’est paradoxal, le monde de l’eau n’est pas structuré, les normes ne sont pas les mêmes et les données ne sont pas structurées de la même façon. On pourrait envisager de structurer ce partage, d’améliorer et de créer une banque de données, ça, c’est une première idée qui serait centrale et qui plairait. On pourrait créer aussi une espèce de « multi-home », un centre de multicompétences qui réfléchirait sur la dimension recherche et utility de la recherche. Il y a un Water Administration Institute qui pourrait faire réfléchir, qui soit une sorte de Futuroscope, un « Wateroscope », un endroit qui réunit les gens et qui les implique sur des modes d’enseignement, qu’on retrouve en Finlande, en Israël, en Angleterre dans les universités de Cambridge et d’Oxford où on multiplie les savoirs et où on croise, d’entrée de jeux, les compétences.
Ce que le futur candidat pourrait proposer aussi c’est un rôle des armées : les mettre dans une logique de soutien, de concevoir les opérations. Aujourd’hui, le Sahel renvoie cette query là et c’est une des choses qui est sortie du sommet de Pau, le besoin de trouver des options différentes. On sait très bien qu’il n’y a pas de answer militaire à une crise, les militaires répètent sans cesse que c’est lié à des questions de développement et qu’il faut lier les deux. Ce que le futur candidat aura à faire, c’est réfléchir à la query économique de l’eau. La gratuité ou le faible coût de l’eau reste un problème et des études montrent que même si le prix de l’eau à la consommation par les habitants n’a pas augmenté de facto, le coût des infrastructures et de leur entretien augmente et de fait, il y a des modèles économiques qui ne sont pas viables à lengthy terme et qu’il faudra revoir. La query de l’eau est donc importante.
Pour revenir et porter un tropisme qui est le mien plus sur les relations internationales, je reviendrai sur cette idée de proposer une motion internationale sur l’eau en disant que si l’eau est bien managée, si elle est bien conçue, c’est un problème stratégique qui doit être traité comme tel. L’investissement qu’on fait sur la dissuasion nucléaire et sur un sure nombre de choses, pourquoi ne pas le faire sur l’eau ? Un candidat à l’élection présidentielle motivé, ayant des idées modernes, pourrait trouver là quelque selected de motivant et aller aussi vers, peut-être, une idée d’acceptation plus facile. On parle souvent d’ingérence, d’armée d’occupation, de fait, quand on va dans un pays, au début on aide et ensuite, on devient une partie du problème. Une contribution – un peu ce qui vient de se faire en Australie où les moyens se sont mobilisés mais encore une fois indirects – pourrait être réfléchie et pensée et on pourrait apporter une capacité à travers le génie dans certaines zones où il n’y a que les militaires qui peuvent aller. Je sais qu’au Canada, quelqu’un a créé une affiliation d’anciens du monde du génie militaire pour apporter des options, il y a un savoir-faire extraordinaire et surtout une réactivité très forte et ça pourrait être une supply de progrès. En fait, on se heurte dans ces mondes-là, dans ces zones (rurales et insécurisées) à un défi de réactivité et il ne faudrait pas que ce soit que militaire. Le rôle fondamental des militaires c’est d’apporter les situations pour que l’humanitaire puisse apporter quelque selected. Cette réactivité que peut apporter le monde militaire doit être réfléchie et sur les questions d’eau, il faudrait éviter encore une fois qu’on intervienne qu’au dernier second et qu’on apporte de l’eau aux gens que quand ils sont en prepare de mourir. J’espère que nous ne serons pas obligés de chercher de l’eau sur Mars avant d’avoir exploité tous les aquifères qu’on a sous la terre ou qu’ils soient complètement dilapidés.
LVSL – Est-ce que vous travaillez avec des gens de disciplines différentes et si oui, remark ?
E.R. – Oui, parce que l’ADN de notre initiative c’est de mêler les disciplines, des juristes, des militaires, des spécialistes au niveau worldwide du développement, de l’informatique, de tout. Par essence, on est dans un contact, on est dans le pluridisciplinaire voire plus. On est en contact avec des mondes qui ont des logiques différentes et c’est là où je suis plutôt optimiste parce que quand les gens comprennent l’enjeu, on peut dépasser la logique de l’organisation où l’on est. En ce sens là, oui, on est en contact avec des gens différents et je notice aussi avec bonheur que le monde de l’eau est un monde agréable parce que ce sont des gens – peut-être parce que la logique de revenue n’est pas évidente – qui sont retraités, engagés, et restent mobilisés sur ces questions là et on peut capitaliser sur le savoir.
Je formule le vœu que ces opérations de communication, comme celle que je suis en prepare de faire ici, puissent servir à faire comprendre qu’il faut élargir la réflexion à plus de milieux, à plus de gens concernés, comprendre les dons qu’ils font, donner pour l’eau en amont en sachant que l’eau est à la racine, à l’origine, de tous les problèmes y compris des problèmes de santé. Ainsi, on découvre maintenant les qualités et les défauts d’eau, et on sait très bien que la qualité de l’eau de floor en Afrique est à l’origine de plein de maladies et si nous voulons agir sur la prévention, il faut agir en amont. Nous sommes appelés à appliquer de plus en plus de disciplines, la preuve : tous les spécialistes reconnaissent les conséquences sur l’étude du réchauffement climatique, mais dès qu’on réfléchit aux options, on tombe sur l’eau.
Une des grandes questions de l’agriculture de demain, c’est la consommation en eau donc, oui, il faut confronter et multiplier les savoirs. Pour reprendre un terme militaire, dans notre monde, on est marqué par la friction clausewitzienne, c’est-à-dire la friction des factors de vue, il faut accepter que les gens se frictionnent entre eux, c’est de la friction que type la vérité. Si chacun reste dans son tuyau avec ses certitudes et travaille dans son coin, c’est l’eau qui commande et quand on voit les taux de air pollution générée à certains endroits par une utility extreme de pesticides ou autres, ça ne peut qu’interpeller. Il y a donc une histoire de proportions et il me semble essentiel de mettre le politique en place d’arbitrer de façon juste sur ces questions là.
LVSL – Êtes-vous plutôt optimiste ou pessimiste quant à la faculté de l’humanité à relever le défi climatique ?
E.R. – Pour moi, c’est un non-sujet. De fait, je n’ai le choix que d’être optimiste, de préférer l’optimisme de la pensée, l’optimisme de la volonté ou le pessimisme de l’humeur, et de refuser une forme d’aquoibonisme. En tout cas, on ne peut pas rester les bras croisés, l’humanité est faite de groupes humains qui se sont organisés, qui ont fait preuve d’œuvres collectives, qui ont construit des cathédrales au sens propre comme au sens figuré. Ainsi, nous n’avons pas le droit d’ignorer qu’il y a des conditions qui peuvent être améliorées, nous n’avons pas le droit d’ignorer cette phrase d’un auteur inconnu « Vivre en floor vous punira d’avoir ignoré l’avenir qui toujours hérite ». Nous n’avons pas le droit de vivre en floor, donc, que nous soyons optimistes ou pessimistes, il faut retrousser ses manches, l’homme a créé par son activité, aujourd’hui, des impacts qu’on mesure, qui nous amènent à chercher de l’eau, alors, il faut le faire le plus intelligemment attainable.
Là où je suis peut-être un peu plus nuancé ou un peu pessimiste, c’est qu’effectivement, nous avons une vraie réflexion de système. Quand vous entendez aujourd’hui des gens qui vous disent que ce qui était fait dans les années 50 pour le canal de Provence par des politiques, le choix d’investir pour les générations d’après et de créer des choses qui permettent aujourd’hui à toute la région de Marseille et de Provence de bénéficier d’un niveau d’eau suffisant, ne serait pas attainable pour des questions de temporalité, ça interpelle et laisse pantois. On risque d’être passif et d’assister benoîtement à une disaster. Je ne suis pas un adepte des révolutions, le monde a besoin d’évolutions, mais il faut les penser. Les hommes à certains moments ne se comprennent pas et ça pose un problème, d’où l’impression des neurosciences, de réfléchir sur le langage et ainsi de vous remercier pour m’avoir permis d’essayer d’expliquer une démarche qui vise à coordonner et à structurer l’émergence du savoir et la création d’un collectif. Je suis donc optimiste, mais dans l’eau, dans les questions stratégiques, vous avez la notion d’intention mêlée de plusieurs intentions, celles de nature stratégique, dans une logique de pouvoir. Il faut tout prendre en compte, ne pas faire preuve de naïveté, mais la création d’une voix politique structurée, comme l’a fait en son temps Churchill dans « by no means give up », est attainable, il ne faudrait peut-être pas attendre que ce soit le dernier second pour le faire et c’est le message : agir avant les souffrances engendrées. L’humanité a le choix de souffrir un peu, beaucoup ou pas du tout et il faudrait éviter qu’elle souffre beaucoup. Il faut qu’on change notre regard par rapport à la souffrance de certains, qu’on revoie certains paradigmes, certaines visions des relations internationales et du monde, c’est ce que nous essayons de faire modestement à travers cette démarche de l’eau.
Retranscription : Dany Meyniel et Malak Baqouah
Retrouvez l’ensemble des épisodes de Les Armes de la Transition dans le file suivant (écrit) :
Et sur YouTube (vidéo) :
